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External Mixer needed? Need sound to External speakers + PA in hall

Katrina

Katrina
United States

Total Posts: 14
Joined: December 1, 2014

Any suggestions for a good 4-channel mixer to use with the KN7 or
some clever cable system?
Ideally I would like to have 3-4 outputs ALL SOUNDING LIKE MAIN OUT!

Am about to put on a charity concert using the KN7 as pre-recorded accompaniment to my choir in a Church with a PA system.

Usually I use Main out to two active speakers 50 RMS + the 50 RMS of the keyboard itself for smaller venues: With the keyboard on one side and one of the two speakers on the other side for the singers to hear clearly on that side. Thought I could utilise the Sub outs to plug into the church's PA system for the audience. I need speakers behind my choir so they can hear the accompaniments but wanted to use the church PA system (it accepts 6 x 1/4" inputs) to ensure the accompaniments are heard from the audience's point of view. Otherwise people's voices tend to carry further than the keyboard accompaniments. I generally don't need to mike up the choir, though I sometimes have an ambient mic attached to the KN7 for a quieter soloist.

HOWEVER, a few of the songs if heard through the Sub Outs will NOT sound very good without all the channels playing!
(Yes, I have played around with the Sub Out various options)

I do not now have enough rehearsals to get the choir used to singing to the cut-down version if it was played through the speakers behind them. Also I notice that the volume of the Sub Outs can not be varied from the KN7 and would have to have external volume control on the speakers (which admittedly can be done on my little 50 RMS speakers)
Stupidly I had assumed that the Sub Outs would have had an extra option to output the ENTIRE sound. I feel a right idiot!

Tags: Main Out & Sub Out, Mixer box for KN7000
Posted on March 13, 2017 at 12:54 PM
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17 Replies

RMepstead

RMepstead
United Kingdom

Total Posts: 169
Joined: May 28, 2014

Re: External Mixer needed? Need sound to External speakers + PA in hall

Hi there.
I use a Behringer Xenyx X2442 USB Mixer linked to an LD Maui 11 P.A. System which provides potentially massive volume without any chance of feedback and a barely noticeable piece of equipment.
The mixer has multiple inputs and outputs which I use with various artists - seehttp://www.tributeartistes.com - where with a monitor as well I can provide sound back to the singer(s) in addition to quality sound out to the audience.
You're in the UK but where?

Posted on March 13, 2017 at 2:44 PM

Katrina

Katrina
United States

Total Posts: 14
Joined: December 1, 2014

Re: External Mixer needed? Need sound to External speakers + PA in hall

Hi Roger! Thanks for your quick response! Really appreciate it.
Presumably it needs a laptop connected to it. I will definitely look into it.

But do you know of any slightly simpler mixer or cabling set-up that would still allow output of ALL tracks from my sequencer (all sounding like Main Out) to more than one destination? (even if it doesn't give full volume control - as I could twiddle speaker knobs if necessary - and not needing any fancy mike control (as I can manage with just the kn7 mike for announcements mainly), and preferably without needing a laptop) ?

I don't need anything for recording as I only record multitrack learning tracks for my singers on my macbook/garageband - not high-grade sound recording. Just so they can learn song lines at home.

I just need to be able to get the existing recorded sound out of the kn7000 to more than one destination as Main Out in choir concerts, two or three times a year.

Posted on March 13, 2017 at 3:29 PM

RMepstead

RMepstead
United Kingdom

Total Posts: 169
Joined: May 28, 2014

Re: External Mixer needed? Need sound to External speakers + PA in hall

The Behringer mixer can have anything connected to it...either a keyboard or an iPad or a laptop or guitar...you name it.
Sometimes I use the main outs at the back of the kn7000 to the amplification system or PA, and the hole where you plug in your earphones at the front left hand side of the kn7000 to a monitor.
That would avoid buying a mixer at all.
Rog

Posted on March 13, 2017 at 7:06 PM

Katrina

Katrina
United States

Total Posts: 14
Joined: December 1, 2014

Re: External Mixer needed? Need sound to External speakers + PA in hall

Hi Roger,
Thanks for your replies. (In answer to your question, I'm in Colchester, by the way.)

If I get the Behringer you have, can I just ask does that definitely give out TWO stereo signals of the whole mix?

Are there enough 1/4" outputs from the box? Looking on a photo online there is a just a L&R Main Out then a CONTROL L&R out - can that be used as a second stereo signal of the entire mix? (And lots of different subs but I would want to use all the different tracks on the original KN7 sequence and presumably would need an awful lot of cables if connecting to the subs out?).

If it's possible to get two complete stereos out, then I may need extra cables?

Already have : Twin 1/4" to Single stereo cable to connect KN& Main Out to the box - or would it have to have twin L&R 1/4" plugs on the box input end?

Then for the output I already have
- a single stereo 1/4" to plug into the PA which can have an adapter to make twin on Behringer end
- a twin 1/4" to twin phono to my own pair of speakers to go behind the choir.

(I recently acquired an iPad Air 2 but only use that to output mp3s to bluetooth speakers for teaching purposes and not really got into it yet!)

Re plugging into the KN7's headphone socket, then I'd lose the keyboard's own speaker sound, unless there's a way over that. That would be fine if I could rely on the church's PA system to deliver throughout the church, but the church speakers are half way down the auditorium and I fear the people at the front may not get the whole sound.

I actually have a migraine at the moment so it's really difficult to concentrate!

Posted on March 14, 2017 at 11:29 AM

RMepstead

RMepstead
United Kingdom

Total Posts: 169
Joined: May 28, 2014

Re: External Mixer needed? Need sound to External speakers + PA in hall

I'm out at the moment Katrina so will have an investigate later in the day.

Posted on March 14, 2017 at 12:38 PM

RMepstead

RMepstead
United Kingdom

Total Posts: 169
Joined: May 28, 2014

Re: External Mixer needed? Need sound to External speakers + PA in hall

See photo of appropriate page in the manual which describes a set up using the Behringer mixer for 'a band or small church with stage monitors'.
The illustration shows two main powered speakers connected to the 'main out' and a further two stage monitors each separately connected to the mixer as well.
Could be that the only way that we're going to prove this works is to try it out. I'm retired and live in Wiltshire so it sounds like a day out for me.
Rog.

Attachments: image.jpeg
Posted on March 14, 2017 at 2:46 PM

Katrina

Katrina
United States

Total Posts: 14
Joined: December 1, 2014

Re: External Mixer needed? Need sound to External speakers + PA in hall

Thanks! You're a star!

So it looks like you can use the Aux Outs to send to the PA, while using the normal Main outs to the stage speakers. Or, presumably vice versa.

Sorry to bother you again, but wondering if you can vary the volume to the PA from the Behringer if going out from Aux Out?

And whether you can set a different volume to the stage speakers in comparison with the volume to the PA?

Posted on March 14, 2017 at 4:21 PM

RMepstead

RMepstead
United Kingdom

Total Posts: 169
Joined: May 28, 2014

Re: External Mixer needed? Need sound to External speakers + PA in hall

As far as I can see you can alter the volumes independently both at the behringer mixer and of course also at your speakers and monitors; and also of course on the keyboard if you are operating from there. But I guess you are more likely to be standing up in front of your choir conducting them as you are using sequenced tracks in your KN7000.
This latter is more easily achieved recording the sequences as MP3 tracks and dropping them into an ipad played out through the keyboard or the behringer and you can have the ipad clipped to your sheet music stand.

Posted on March 14, 2017 at 4:55 PM

Katrina

Katrina
United States

Total Posts: 14
Joined: December 1, 2014

Re: External Mixer needed? Need sound to External speakers + PA in hall

Hi Roger, Can't thank you enough for your help. Someone has kindly lent me a mixer - a Behringer Xenyx X2222 USB (I think it is one down from yours). (If I get on with it I'll probably buy one. Do you know if there are any huge advantages from having the X2442 as opposed to the x2222?)

Because of your help I had the confidence to try it instead of taking one look at all those buttons and saying "Yikes!"
I fed the keyboard in via the phono plugs to the USB input on top. Then out the Main Outs and Control Outs.
Would have liked to connect via 1/4" but Maplin seem to be all out of just about all 1/4" cables in my local shop. (My existing cables need to connect to PA, a separate piano to PA etc. ) Have spent 2 days (in-between work) trundling through Maplins site and Amazon, looking at various cables and adapters. Now have square eyes!

To add to the cabling fun, I've found that one of my pair of active speakers (the one that feeds the 2nd speaker) has a faulty socket 5 DIN for the link So another kind of cable + adapters to use the other output socket (luckily there is one!) . This concert is hard work. A medieval group who were going to be all dressed up and playing medieval instruments in a part of our concert pulled out on the very day that £50 worth of posters/leaflets was delivered. Then the Church's phone number changed - so wrong number on poster. Now the church have told me we can't have the rehearsal times we booked. Only 2 hours, which includes the half hour or so it will take me to set up, and rehearsing all the moving around and stage work/dancing. Last week we had been told we could have a mini-rehearsal for 3 people's dancing around while singing and then, having rearranged our work schedules, turned up to be told we could only have 10 minutes as there was going to be a funeral! Dearie me! At least 100 tickets have sold so far (maybe as much as 135 tickets) so really hoping I'll have time to check the sound level setup as well as rehearse the people and that we get through it OK.

I'm trying to apologise for not having got back to you before!

Thanks again

Posted on March 19, 2017 at 1:40 AM

RMepstead

RMepstead
United Kingdom

Total Posts: 169
Joined: May 28, 2014

Re: External Mixer needed? Need sound to External speakers + PA in hall

Hi Katrina - that's brilliant that someone lent you the mixer. There is very little difference between the 2442 and the 2222 - the main difference is that the 2442 has 24 inputs whilst the 2222 has 22 inputs - both way beyond your needs. Just to explain that a bit further the 2442 has 10 mic (non-stereo) inputs whilst the 2222 has only 8 mic (non-stereo) inputs - there's the difference.
Certainly make sure you have all the cabling you need and I also get all mine from Maplins - it's worth lugging the Behringer into Maplins and getting one of the knowledgeable lads to work through the cabling requirements with you so that you have everything you want.
Hopefully the person that lent you the mixer also gave you the manual, failing which there are plenty of good videos on you tube on how to cable up and use the machine.
Yes it is 'yikes' to start off with but a lot of it is common sense and well worth the effort up front in the bedroom or wherever before you unleash it on the choir.
I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.
Rog.
For your interest see one of my acts below...
http://www.olyalambourne.com

Posted on March 19, 2017 at 12:47 PM

Katrina

Katrina
United States

Total Posts: 14
Joined: December 1, 2014

Re: External Mixer needed? Need sound to External speakers + PA in hall

Hi Rog!
Just realised that in my haste to do the concert I didn't reply to you last March!

Thanks for the link. Your Olya Lambourne group is absolutely fantastic!

Did you do all the backing on the KN7? - presumably you pre-recorded it?

I'm based in Colchester but will have to keep an eye out.

My Choir Concert eventually went very well. We had a sell-out and had to turn people away. My husband's semi-pro singing Quartet also performed and my Piano pupils filled in the gap surprisingly well (they'd never played so well!) which was left by the Medieval group.

I might add that 20 minutes before it started I was on the verge of cancelling and turning everyone out because the church PA system was not coming on (and as my own good speakers had blown the night before !!!!). I now only had two little monitors (B&O A2s) plus the KN7 itself. It was a nightmare. Also the church warden was incredibly rude and ill-willed (we have performed in many many churches and never come across this before!!!!) . It was her grumpy husband supposedly operating the church PA. (Apparently they're grumpy with everyone).

Then suddenly the church PA started working!

In the end the performance went really well (even though my carefully-set sound levels had been moved by the Quartet who had been unable to do their afternoon rehearsal because of the church PA not turning on) and we managed to produce a really lovely happy atmosphere.

We raised £1,092 for Brain Tumour Research and also £450 for the Church roof (there were extra donations given specifically by people for the Brain Tumour Research)

Am currently looking into maybe getting (2x200w) 2 x 100 RMS Alto Trouper Speakers and some condenser mics. These speakers seem quite useful as they are narrow & tall, with quite a lot of inputs and controls (though probably need that Behringer Mixer that you helped me with - just to condenser mike-up 4 quiet girls on their own for one of the numbers). They don't have a thumpey bass (the speakers, that is!)

My previous speakers were only 50RMS (plus used the kn7 output), but after the awful experience with the Church PA (the church had terrible acoustics so we needed the PA !) I decided that having larger speakers might be a good idea for the slightly larger venues - and I can apparently daisy-chain in further speakers into them!

We're about to surprise a past choir member, who is now in a wheel-chair in a nursing home, and another concert for some retired NHS workers' Christmas party, and finally some Christmas songs/carols outside a very busy fish'n'chip shop !

But having seen how professional your acts are this must seem like the babbling of babes!

Just wanted to thank you so much, Rog, for your help with the mixer etc. We could never have done it without your help!

Posted on November 12, 2017 at 5:16 PM

RMepstead

RMepstead
United Kingdom

Total Posts: 169
Joined: May 28, 2014

Re: External Mixer needed? Need sound to External speakers + PA in hall

Hi Katrina.
I'm glad it all worked out in the end for you all. Yes it's definitely best to have all your own equipment to rely on. When you're thinking about a P.A.system to link up to your mixer, think about portability because some of these speakers can be a mite heavy particularly when you've got to lift them up onto speaker stands.
I use an LD systems maui speaker which looks a bit like a chimney coming out of a floor based bass speaker. They do a range of units which split into two or three bits; are relatively lightweight, and slot together in seconds.
It's taken nearly three years to get the 'Olya and the Bond Girls' act up to speed but it's been worth it because they are now a delight to watch and listen to.
Roger M
http://www.keyboardplayerextraordinaire.com...

Posted on November 12, 2017 at 9:19 PM

Katrina

Katrina
United States

Total Posts: 14
Joined: December 1, 2014

Re: External Mixer needed? Need sound to External speakers + PA in hall

Hi Rog,
Just been listening to more of your demos. what a talented bunch you are! It's really amazing. In addition to the Olya & the Bond girls, I'm very impressed with "Karen Carpenter" and "Petula Clark" , though have not listened to all yet.

I'm not quite sure how you are able to produce all that live backing!
Presumably you use other keyboards besides the Kn7?

Yes, thanks, portability is essential. It's bad enough that I have to get other people to move my KN7000. Thanks, I had a look at the Maui 11 (and Maui 5 too, but that doesn't have enough ports) but it might be a bit too bass-heavy for choir music - though occasionally that would be very nice when we do pop, gospel etc! We do a lot of classical too and so need good middle and highs.

Also, even the the Maui 5 is a tad heavier, surprisingly, at 11.3kg than the 10kg Alto Trouper - though I take on board what you said about the Maui's dismantling to carry separate parts. I would not be able to afford more than one Maui 11, but would prefer two speakers (can get two Troupers for £398) to distribute the sound. I'll probably use one as a monitor behind the choir). Normally we're in considerably smaller venues than you ! As we are generally mixing non-miked natural voices with digital backings but the voices carry greater distance than the speakers, I find I need to juggle the mix so the audience can hear the accompaniment near the back but if I have the audience's speaker next to the choir then the choir will be complaining and turning it down! If I get a couple of Troupers I can always add other speakers (not necessarily Alto Troupers) later as they allow that, even without a Behringer mixer. I'm also thinking I might use the Bluetooth (though I understand some people have complained it hums on the Troupers) for rehearsals.

I aim eventually to leave the KN7 behind and just load everything onto iPad. Never very happy about lugging the KN7 around with the risk of damage.
But recording all the accompaniments for the iPad will take ages. I have hundreds of teaching tracks recorded as mp3s, often with sop 2 as flute and tenor as alto sax etc plus me (or hubby) singing the various lines. But at the moment I just have a few songs recorded into mp3/AAC as just accomps for iPad-playing (especially for carol singing outdoors with my little B&O A2s!). I've found the iPad App Audio on Cue useful as it doesn't automatically start playing the next track, until you tell it to. May also try the expensive SoundCue App to try and circumvent iTunes. Was not impressed that when you share iTune tracks it sometimes actually wipes tracks off the iPad for no reason at all - nearly had a disaster for accompanying a girl at school, but luckily double-checked. Her's was the only song that disappeared when I had loaded some others on ! I find the iPad particularly restrictive for playing & loading tracks I've recorded. What a faff!

Doing the music is the easy bit! It's all the technical stuff that I find so hard! Plus all the secretarial stuff.

You are a super performer. (Most of my effort is in the teaching side.) As of course you have found too, it is very rewarding to see people progressing. But I think some of my performers have started at a much lower bass line than yours! (In the big Spring concert I had 6 new people , two of which had never sung before, but in 6 weeks they managed to learn and perform all those songs in parts - even with moving around in some of the numbers.) Warms the cockles of your heart to see people blossoming, doesn't it.

Posted on November 13, 2017 at 12:57 AM

RMepstead

RMepstead
United Kingdom

Total Posts: 169
Joined: May 28, 2014

Re: External Mixer needed? Need sound to External speakers + PA in hall

Hi Katrina
First of all 'bluetooth' - maximum range around 10 metres so dodgy if you're working more than a few yards away from the 'receiver' instrument/p.a.or whatever.
Ok I prerecord all the tracks for my singers as MP3 files on my desktop computer, and then pop them all into a great piece of free, yes free, software called 'Dropbox' in my desktop computer.
The whole concept of 'dropbox' is one of sharing the files in that dropbox with anybody else in their copy of dropbox and/or with your other computers.....for example your ipad. So you also have dropbox downloaded on your ipad and when you pop an MP3 into the dropbox on your computer it automatically shares it with the dropbox on your ipad. Clever???
Next I have an MP3 player app on my ipad called 'Cloudbeats' which enables me to search for files in dropbox and play them under my control. I keep them in the right order by numbering them consecutively otherwise they will appear alphabetically.
Finally I have always sought to find the specific rhythms (style files) for specific songs to ensure that what I'm playing sounds as close to the original as I can make it. To do this I download style files from various other makes of keyboard that are song specific and convert them so that they play in my KN7000.
Rog

Posted on November 13, 2017 at 7:34 PM

Katrina

Katrina
United States

Total Posts: 14
Joined: December 1, 2014

Re: External Mixer needed? Need sound to External speakers + PA in hall

Hi Rog, thought you might like to know that, having heard an Alto PA speaker (though not the one I was contemplating - not in stock) I have after all decided to go, like you, with an LD Sytems Maui. Having heard it after hearing the harsh sound of the Alto, there was no competition! I expect you have got one of the more powerful Mauis like the 11 or more. But I think the 5 (200wRMS) will be enough for at least nursing homes. I may use it with a mixer - probably the Yamaha MG10XU (even though it requires an annoying external mains adaptor) if, like this December I wish to use a mike or two for 4 rather quiet ladies doing a separate number with some Reverb, or if later I want a second speaker. Did seriously buying the Behringer 2222 (though I can still borrow one) but probably bigger than I'll need. Otherwise I can just plug the KN7 and/or iPad straight into the speaker. And can even use it in my own lounge! Am hoping that, with 120 degrees sound, we won't need monitors. We'll see!

Thanks for putting me onto the Maui speakers! The only bad point about the Maui 5 is that it doesn't have a Line OUT.

I was literally cringing at the sound coming out of the normal PA type speakers!

I daresay the bigger Maui 11 would have been much better, but too heavy for me. The Maui 5 is very portable and hopefully loud enough since the choir is generally not miked up. (16 people).

Am hoping there will be a further price-reduction tomorrow for Black Friday when I go to pick it up! Have already knocked them down a bit and got some cables included, but the Maui 5 was already a very low price. The mixer still a bit dear compared with some internet, but this local company have a good reputation for after-sales service, so would rather have that!

All the Best, and thanks for putting me onto the Maui!

Katrina

Posted on November 23, 2017 at 11:18 PM

RMepstead

RMepstead
United Kingdom

Total Posts: 169
Joined: May 28, 2014

Re: External Mixer needed? Need sound to External speakers + PA in hall

All good stuff. By all means email me [email protected] and establish direct contact rather than continue communicating on here. Best wishes for Xmas.
Rog

Posted on November 24, 2017 at 1:07 PM

r1kirby

r1kirby
United States

Total Posts: 23
Joined: March 11, 2015

Re: External Mixer needed? Need sound to External speakers + PA in hall

I purchased the JBL eon one a few months ago. The sound is incredible with the KN7000 and vocals. It is fully self contained with an on board 6 channel mixer. You don’t have to haul a bunch of stuff around. Check it out you won’t be disappointed.....

Posted on October 22, 2018 at 6:08 PM